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qualifying for Nationals
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TOPIC: qualifying for Nationals

qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 2 months ago #74

  • momonboard
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just wondering, how does a rider qualify for Nationals in a certain event, if his home series didn't offer that event? or perhaps, the home series only held the event once (rather than the two needed for Nationals)?
Last Edit: 5 years, 2 months ago by momonboard. Reason: clarity
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 2 months ago #77

Please review section:
100.03 REGIONAL SERIES REQUIREMENTS in the 2008 / 2009 rule book available on the www.usasa.org website / upper right hand corner between the Forum & Contact us links.
It clearly outlines the path to qualify for Nationals.

thanks
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #80

  • jvagg
I have read the rules and there still is some question on qualifying for Nationals. I understand that you either qualify as a series winner or through the National ranking for extra slots.

But what is still not clear to me is the topic of series winners. From what I can tell is that a series winner is determined from who has teh highest points for that discipline when you add the top 2/3 events (depends on series) of ONLY series events. Is it true that it is ONLY home series points that are used when determining the series winners?

The next part that is not clear is if the series did offer 2 events in a discipline but a rider only attended 1 of those events, and there was no other riders in that age group that competed in that discipline for the entire season. So the rider will have the highest points for that discipline and age group in the series and therefore should be considered the series winner. But then it raises the issue that the rider will have the highest points for this discipline in his series but will not have a National ranking since he has only 1 home series score. So does the rider get invited to Nationals as a series winner even though he does not have a National ranking? The rule book does say " Riders will be required to meet the minimum requirements for each discipline they wish to compete in at Nationals." It is not clear on what that really means.

Does it make sense that a rider can be invited to Nationals when they do not have a National Ranking?

Any clarification on this is appreciated.

Thanks
Jeff Vagg
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #81

Please review:
103.00 National Championships Qualification

The rulebook clearly outlines all requirements for both Regional & National Qualification processes.

Thanks

p
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #82

  • jvagg
I have read 103 several times and it is still not clear on if a regional series requires 2 scores in the discipline to be invited to Nationals as a series winner. It just says that the riders need to meet minimum requirements, and it does not say what those are.

Plus the Regional rankings on the site will list a rider as #1 if they have the highest points even if it is one score. So from that I assume that a regional winner can have one score and still be invited to Nationals. But does that make sense since they do not have a National ranking too?

Maybe I am missing where it spells it out. What section in 103 clearly states that the rider needs 2 scores, or states it does not matter how many as long as they have the highest points for the series.

Also, it does not say in teh rule book that a series winner is only determined by points in home series events ONLY. I know it says that on the series winner rankings page.

Thanks
Jeff
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #83

  • jason
To answer the original posters question, if a Series does not offer at least 2 events in a discipline then that Series is not considered a fully sanctioned Series and no rider from that series can qualify for Nationals in that discipline. A rider must compete in at least 2 events in their home Series in a discipline in order to qualify for Nationals in that discipline.

A rider MUST have 2 home series results in order to qualify for Nationals, even if they are the only person in their age group in their series. A rider can't just show up to one of each event and get an automatic spot to Nationals just because they are in a small series. This is unfair to the rest of the Series around the country that have many people fighting for a single qualifying spot in the same age group in their series.

If a rider only has 1 home series result at the end of their series season they cannot be invited to Nationals in that discipline.

Regional Rankings are based on a members Home Series ONLY, the traveling score/Nationals score is only used for National Rankings.

If these rules are not clear enough in the rulebook we will need to clarify them better in next year's rulebook.
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #84

  • jvagg
Thanks Jason. That helps clear everything up.

I may be incorrect but I did not see it spelled out clearly in the rule book as you stated here. It would be great to update the book.

Thanks
Jeff
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #86

  • joncasson
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Jeff-

Check out rules 100.04 through 100.07. They outline the event requirements for regional series. If you are specifically asking if a regional series can qualify a series winner if they do juts one event- the answer is no and that is addressed in the sanctioning agreement each series director signs.
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #87

Jeff has brought up a good point here that needs to be clarified in the rulebook. That way, the membership can act as checks and balances on series directors. I think the software should be able to detect whether minimum requirements have been met.
And no! One event riders should not be at Nationals, regardless of age class. In the past many series directors have allowed this.
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #100

  • jvagg
I now understand that a rider needs 2 scores in their home series in order to be invited to Nationals as a series winner. So no riders with only one score will be invited even if they do have the most points for their age group in that discipline. Essentially no rider that does not have a National ranking will be invited, and to be Nationally ranked you need a minimum of 2 home series scores.

For a returning champion from last years Nationals, will they also need 2 home series scores? The rule book just says they have to be current members in good standing. But again it is vague if they are required to also have 2 scores, and therefore be Nationally ranked. I guess it can be implied from the rules. But just so I understand for returning champions I thought I would ask.

I agree with Scott's post below we need to make sure if this is the rules that they are clear, and that they are enforced consistently. I am not sure if the minimum of 2 scores is new this year, because I know riders that were invited last year with only 1 score in a discipline in their home series. They were invited as series winners with that one score.

Thanks
Jeff
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #101

  • jason
Returning champions only have to be members of USASA before invitations are sent out. They are not required to do any events locally, they are invited back as returning National Champions to defend their title.

The system was automated through software to invite riders so no one should have received an invite last year if they did not have the minimum number of events. If a rider got an invite to Nationals with only one home series event then it was a mistake or they petitioned the spot using our petition process.
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #103

  • billputnam
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Jason,
In my opinion, the rules are not at all clear. Actually, I think they are very clear, but I interpret them differently from you. When I wanted to be sure that I would qualify, I read the rules -- specifically section 103.04. It seems to me, this section is unambiguous. If you win your series, you qualify. There is no mention of the need for a national ranking, or any other mention of participating in two events. I am quite surprised by your interpretation.

I have qualified for the last 10 years. I find it hard to believe that I am the only person who misunderstood this point.
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #104

  • jason
Bill, thanks for your opinion.

The 2 event minimum per series is a rule that every Series Director signs off on when they sign the sanctioning agreement at the beginning of the season. If it is not clear in the rulebook we will make sure to make it clear next year. But the Series Director is responsible for explaining and enforcing their qualification criteria to their riders and this should be clear to all series members.

There are many reasons for this rule, the Series Directors requested this rule be created for one reason in particular: Many series have only 1 or 2 people in an age group and in the past these riders would simply show up to one event and qualify for nationals without supporting their regional series the rest of the season. It hurts the series financially when they don't get regional turnout because people have no reason to show up and it is not fair for the other series competitors who need to compete all season long fighting for a single spot from their series to Nationals.
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #105

  • billputnam
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Jason,
Thanks for the quick reply. I have no argument with your reasons for the rule. You make the rules and I will abide by them. My only concern is that it was not clear to me as written. Adding a line in section A that says something like "winning the local series requires competing in at least two events" would clarify everything.
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #106

  • asterley
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I agree with Bill and Jeff, the rules need to be clarified. It has been true for a long time that a Series needs to offer 2 events per discpline but just this year has it been stated that each rider in any Series needs 2 results in the 2 events to be the Series Winner. In the past Series were allowed to set their own criteria to determine Winners as long as they were fair and consistent within their Series. As Series Director I am asked to submit my list of Series Winners at the end of the season so riders can get invites. This might be how certain riders get invites as Series Winners but who would not get a National Ranking due to a single result. Series Directors should be ethical and fair and Jason shouldn't have to scrutinize our Winners lists to make sure our riders competed in 2 events. However, when the NRS started, round after round of invites went out and I had many riders in my Series invited to Nationals off the NRS who had competed in just a single local event. It was frustrating to me as a Series Director to have kids ride their hearts out in deep age groups and not be picked up off the NRS and others do a single run in a single Slopestyle and get to go to Nationals off the NRS because their age group had low numbers. I think the Board has addressed this for the current year, but you can't blame people for not understanding that how riders were invited in the very recent past is not how they will be invited this year. My question about the software that generates ranking is: If a rider competed at Nationals last year and a single local event this year, will they show on the NRS as having 2 results and be eligible for the automatic invite if there are slots available in their age group? I want the answer to be NO, but I don't know if the software is able to distinguish the origin of the 2 results or if human intervention is required.
Alison
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Re:qualifying for Nationals 5 years, 1 month ago #107

  • jason
The system is 100% automated (except for petitions) and will not invite anyone to Nationals that does not have the required number of events completed in the Regional Series. Regardless of what a Series Director submits as their Series Qualifiers, the system will check to see if the person meets the minimum requirements.
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