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Increase the participants in the younger ages
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TOPIC: Increase the participants in the younger ages

Re:Increase the participants in the younger ages 5 years ago #255

  • sherim37
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I agree that nationals should be held for the best riders, but some kids are in very small regions and make it without having competition. I feel there should be a "Pre National" competition. I agree that each region should be represented, so #1 in the region for each disapline should be invited, but then there should be a "District Competion" (West Coast, Mid-West, and East Coast) the top ?% from that competition should move on to "Nationals." That would be more to the top competitors showing up at Nationals.
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Re:Increase the participants in the younger ages 5 years ago #257

  • joncasson
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Mastercraft-

No where does it state that those are hard numbers or absolute percentages. They are all targets and tools we use to make our best estimates. If Breaker Boys GS had dropped from 151 to 149 would you still advocate adding an additional 10 slots? We didnt go through and TAKE AWAY slots from other groups whose total numbers dropped more than this group. Or do you think we should do that as well? How far down do we need to go to accommodate your needs....90? 110? 120?

If you really want us to stick to hard caps and absolute percentages, we wouldn't be handing down declined invites in the first place. We'd invite a set number and be done with it.

In actuality, we've already invited 69 riders or 48% of the entire Breaker Boys field in GS.

Make an exception for riders who only do 2 events? Sorry, that would completely change the entire National Ranking system and the criteria that's been established for the past few years. We have over 1500 competitors at Nationals who have all followed the rules and criteria as established and refined over the past 20 years of USASA Nationals.

Thank you for your understanding, this is my final response on the subject.
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Re:Increase the participants in the younger ages 5 years ago #258

  • joncasson
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Sheri-

What you suggest has been discussed quite a bit. The board doesnt feel that we have the infrastructure to pull off regional championships just yet, but we are looking at such a scenario in the future. I dont know if it'll ever happen, but is certainly a reasonable solution to many issues.
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Re:Increase the participants in the younger ages 5 years ago #259

  • Zen
That would be ideal and would certainly solve any doubts that the best riders are competiting at Nationals.
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Re:Increase the participants in the younger ages 5 years ago #260

  • ssamuels1
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At this point I'm just curious. How did you arrive at 55 GS and 50 SL slot for youth men, compared to the 50 and 45 for breaker?
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Re:Increase the participants in the younger ages 5 years ago #263

ssamuels1
At this point I'm just curious. How did you arrive at 55 GS and 50 SL slot for youth men, compared to the 50 and 45 for breaker?

He can't that is why his last response was so angry and bitter. He knows that the numbers and most people on this thread would like to know how he came up with the numbers yet he can't s how how he did it. So he gets mad and people that get mad see the mistake but don't care to fix it.

They've all ready made this exception in all the other fields except this one. I'm not sure why he is saying this? Just look at the other division and you'll see that this isn't the case. Breaker boys is the only one. He say 48% have been invited yet they only have 45 and 50 spots the lease amount with the most participants. So what is says is not true. It needs to go to 60 participants in each division. How ever far down you go to get to 60 like all the other divisions is how far you go down.

I would love to talk to the board when we show up. Is that possible?

I would like clarification on how it was done?

Make an exception for riders who only do 2 events? Sorry, that would completely change the entire National Ranking system and the criteria that's been established for the past few years. We have over 1500 competitors at Nationals who have all followed the rules and criteria as established and refined over the past 20 years of USASA Nationals.
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Re:Increase the participants in the younger ages 5 years ago #264

  • jason
Feel free to come to the board meeting on Thursday night. We will all be there.

What you seem to be missing, yet continue to be hammering on, is the fact that there is NO rule or set criteria for how this is done. We work from numbers we have well before the end of the season and we post those numbers as early as possible for all to see and then we need to stick to them. We used a rough percentage system this year to further refine our yearly process. You continue to drag this on when you have been told multiple times that it is done and the numbers are set.

If we change this now, we need to also change it for all other divisions that complain enough. If we change our numbers now, after many people have declined their invitations in other events because they did not get a spot in this one, then those people will be mad because they weren't told they had the possibility of getting a spot in this event after the fact. They looked at the numbers, understood that the max was the max and that was that. We cannot please everyone. We invited the numbers we invited and that is who is invited.

They've all ready made this exception in all the other fields except this one.


We have NOT made this exception in all other fields.

You are more than welcome to volunteer your services year 'round like the rest of the USASA staff and officials (with the exception of me, the paid Executive Director). You can then propose your ideas during the summer/fall or even present your perfect, make everyone happy, get all the kids in, solution. But continuing to fight on the message board over an issue that has been explained for weeks is doing no one any good. Those of us that are working on putting on the Nationals cannot continue to come onto these boards to defend our efforts to an angry parent.

Breaker Boys is a threshhold, age wise, for competitive snowboarding. At this age kids should understand that the National Championships is not an event that everyone gets in to. Realistically, at this age, the qualifiers should be the one representative from each series, period. We do our best to accommodate as many as we can, really, to avoid this exact issue. Parents attacking us for not getting their kids in! If we made it a true National Championships, we would have 34 people in each age group and that would be it.

Please end this topic now. The Executive Board meeting is Thursday night and everyone is welcome to attend. Just understand, that coming into it with a negative attitude or accusatory will get you no where. Everyone involved is doing their best to create fair, fun and safe events for snowboarders of all ages. Inviting 66 out of 148 riders is WAY more than fair, it is over kill.
Last Edit: 5 years ago by .
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Re:Increase the participants in the younger ages 5 years ago #265

  • jason
ssamuels1

At this point I'm just curious. How did you arrive at 55 GS and 50 SL slot for youth men, compared to the 50 and 45 for breaker?


This was based on the number of competitors in the Nationals Rankings at the time we did the numbers, back in February. Final numbers changed in some age groups by the end of the season. Many series had not finished (or even started) some disciplines yet and many on the National Rankings lists did not end up with the minimum 2 results needed to have a final National Ranking.

At the time we did the numbers this is what we worked from:

Youth Men had 137 in GS and 126 in SL.
Breaker Boys had 159 in GS and 157 in SL.

At the end of the season, after filtering out those with only 1 event in the discipline we ended up with what is currently published:

Youth Men: 106 in GS and 101 in SL.
Breaker Boys: 148 in GS and 143 in SL.

As you can see, both numbers changed pretty big at the end, but there is no possible way for us to know what they will change to, so we do our best with what we have to work with.

The alternative is to not post ANY numbers and wait until March 15th when everything is final. Then spend the needed time working out the numbers and inviting everyone around March 21st. That is not an option.

Make sense?

and mastercraft:

He can't that is why his last response was so angry and bitter.


He could have, but who, besides me, would want to waste MORE time justifying something to someone that is so rude? He answered you multiple times and got no where. If I was Jon (a volunteer) I would have given up this one a long time ago.
Last Edit: 5 years ago by .
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Re:Increase the participants in the younger ages 5 years ago #266

Jason, I agree with you 100% except for the following. This is what I would argue at the board meeting and no you wont make everyone happy and yes you guys do a good job.

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. You've invited 71% of the youth mens to GS and you are down to #76 with 5 invites still out.

Breaker Boys GS has 148 riders in the National Rankings. We have invited down to 65th place so far from the National Rankings. 43% of the riders in the Breaker Boys GS National Rankings have been invited.

So tell me how you can in force rule 3 on the breaker boys but not the youth men? The breaker boys should also be at 70%. That is where we are in disagreement. Everything else I agree with you 100%. I also think you need to have some flexibility in your numbers.

Rule #3- In order to make it a true National Championship, there has to be some sort of cutoff in relation to how deep we go into the total membership across the US. To that end, we developed a sliding scale of target percentages based on the total number of competitors.
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